This week on The Filmmaker’s Podcast, Dom Lenoir had the pleasure of chatting with Ryan J. Condal – showrunner, writer and executive producer of House of the Dragon. Among other things, they spoke about writing, how Ryan got the job, season 1 vs season 2 and working with HBO.
Moving from Season 1 to Season 2
Dom asked, “What were some of the changes from season one to season two? Let’s put you in the mindset, you’ve finished season one. You’ve had maybe a ‘break’. Are you looking for feedback? Are you looking at how are we going to adapt to the next thing? What do we like, what didn’t we like from the first season? How are we going to progress these characters through? And you’re going into casting for the second season, as well. How was that process from the first season to the second season?”
Ryan explained that “it was a fairly big shift. Season one we made entirely during COVID. So to go from that shift to making Season 2 on its own is a huge thing. There were so many jokes in Season 2 about I’ve never seen the lower half of your face.”
Transitioning from the isolated and vacuum-like conditions of COVID-19 filming to a more normalised production environment was significant. “It just felt like you’d gone from this monastery deep in the mountains to suddenly standing in a city square,” Ryan says. The second season felt more connected to the audience and to the crew, with many returning from season one and some new members joining them and bringing fresh excitement.
Developing the Scripts and Production
Diving deeper into the script and production evolution, Dom asked whether there “was any script style. As you were getting to the end of season one were thinking, there are some things we want to focus a little bit more on in the second act of this season, or were you thinking, production-wise, maybe we can expand things because we’re out of COVID?”
Ryan replied that they “definitely wanted to expand the world more. Being out of COVID certainly helped cause everything was a challenge. We were at that point in the story where the world naturally expands.” Drawing a parallel with the original Game of Thrones series, he explains how the narrative broadens as characters spread out into different locations, leading to new adventures, heightened stakes, and more dragons.
Creating the Right Tone
The discussion on tone was particularly insightful. Dom asked if the warmth seen in the characters was a conscious decision. Ryan responded, “I think it’s a natural, shared tone across both series because of the nature of the story that’s being told and the time that it’s taking place in and coming from the same source material.”
He emphasises the importance of finding humanity within the dark narrative. “There are individual characters making decisions at the moment, sometimes for pure moralistic reasons, other times for self-centred reasons. But it’s all populated by humans and they have strengths and weaknesses.”
Working with HBO
Dom shifts to the complexities of the production process, particularly with such a large-scale show. “What is the process of doing this multi-crew script process when there are so many moving parts? How does that process work with HBO and yourself?”
Ryan reveals, “It’s very complex and no surprise but we built on the great methodology that David (Benioff) and Dan (D.B. Weiss) created, out of necessity on the original series.” The show uses block shooting and grouping sets and locations together rather than filming episodes in continuity. “You have two units running, at the same time, almost every day.”
Ryan elaborates on the logistical challenges, from coordinating multiple sets and directors to ensuring continuity and coherence across episodes. “You have to keep in your head, where are we in the story in this particular set I’m standing on?” He reinforces the importance of thorough preparation before filming begins.
The Writing Process
Dom curiously asks about the collaboration with HBO. “Is there a writer’s collaboration, how does HBO fit into things? And what’s your process to approach the writing?”
Ryan describes a traditional writer’s room, where he and executive producer Sara Hess oversee the writing. “We break the story together as a collective. With me doing the Roman emperor ‘yay’ or ‘nay’ on a lot of things.” They then work with HBO, receiving feedback throughout the process. “They’re very hands-on, but less telling us what to do and more of just having a voice in the process.”
Concerning budget and production challenges, Ryan notes, “It’s a constant push and pull between ambition and reality. The thing that usually weighs you down most in television is shoot days because those are very expensive.” He explains how they manage costs by grouping location shoots and sets and continuously negotiating trade-offs to stay within budget.
Reflecting on His Journey
Thinking about his journey to getting the House of the Dragon gig, Ryan shares, ” I was a massive fan of George (R.R. Martin)’s writing. At the time I was 15 or 18 years. Now it’s almost 25 years.” His long-standing admiration for George’s work, combined with networking, led to him being approached to write the pilot for the series.
His story is evidence of the power of passion and persistence in the industry. “I deeply care and I hope that’s the thing that comes through in. I hope that fans that are familiar with the books see the textural reality that we brought to the series.”
To find out more about Ryan’s journey from a fan to the showrunner of one of the most anticipated series, listen to the full episode here.
